The Terrible Podcast – Talking Kelvin Benjamin, Red Zone Touchdowns, Small School Cornerbacks & More Episode

Season 4, Episode 93 of The Terrible Podcast is up and co-host David Todd and I talk briefly about the Pittsburgh Steelers 2014 preseason schedule before getting into some talk about the upcoming 2014 NFL Draft.

David and I discuss why FSU wide receiver Kelvin Benjamin seems to be the biggest polarizing potential first round draft pick for the Steelers this year. We also discuss his red zone production and drops, and also go over why the Steelers really need to find a receiver in the draft that can contribute inside the red zone.

Before moving on, David and I take a rip back to the 2000 NFL Draft when the Steelers selected wide receiver Plaxico Burress in the first round. Like Benjamin, Burress had several of the same concerns attached to him at that time.

After talking about Benjamin, David and I discuss the Steelers need for cornerbacks and start off by going over all of the failed draft picks that have played the position during the era of general manager Kevin Colbert. We discuss the varied opinions out there of the top four or five cornerbacks in 2014 draft class before going over a few small school prospects the Steelers might consider selecting this year.

As usual, several other Steelers talking points are also discussed along the way.

Thanks for listening and don’t forget to call or email with questions or comments and please pass us along to your friends!

The new message hotline is (814) 429-YINZ.

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  • Kstrings83

    If the Steelers drafted Benjamin wouldn’t that also open up the chance for the other WR’s and Miller in the Red Zone to make more TD catches? Even if he is just a Red Zone specialist his first year, i think that’s well worth the 15th pick. The other teams D is going to be keeping a eye on him for sure. Antonio Brown can catch all over the field and get into the red zone but Ben doesn’t seem to look for him inside the 10, I guess he’s just too short down there? Not sure why he doesn’t put up more TD’s. But i’d be happy with Benjamin at 15

  • Doug Sawyer

    yes…that’s is one of he immediates he’d bring double coverage over the top leaves Brown open to destroy teams

  • I can’t see him demanding double coverage with his lack of speed.

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    It’s not his speed that would draw the double coverage, it’s his height. Defenses would likely put a corner in front (to cover the out/curl/back shoulder/etc) and the a safety over the top to swat down the jump ball.

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    You make a good point that most people (including myself are forgetting). Our team lives and dies with Big Ben. We have to customize our offense to him. What type of receiver does Ben need/want to be most effective?

    My opinion carries exactly zero weight with the Steelers front office. But Ben’s opinion… That’s a different story. If Ben sees taller receivers better or needs a taller guy to be more productive with them, you have to factor that in.

    If Ben is happy with 3 short receivers and a strong defense, I’ll jump on the bandwagon. But I’m betting he’s not.

  • I keep seeing the Burress comparisons with KB, and I think they are apt. This comparison is exactly what scares me about KB. Burress was never a TD machine (he had 22 in 5 seasons with us never topped 7 TDs in a season). Some of that was QB play, but a good portion, even in NY when he was putting up better numbers, was due to his faults as a player. Faults that also fit the comparison between KB and Burress, namely that he lacked speed, was a poor route runner, and at times had questionable hands (the last two caused a lot of interceptions throughout his career).

    KB, like Burress, is a high risk, high reward prospect. I tend to think the Steelers will remember that and avoid him in the first for a more polished player later.

  • I don’t think his height alone would draw double coverage until/if his play demanded it. AB is a much bigger threat to opposing defenses than anyone we draft will be this season.

  • He does tend to shy away from Brown in the RZ for whatever reason, but I am not sure it is all about the height. Cotchery was only 6’1″ and Ben loved to look for him in the RZ. Moye was a big target but rarely got RX chances, though of course his play was a big factor there…

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    You and I are free to speculate all we want. All I know is Ben has stated on numerous occasions how he prefers taller receivers.

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    AB does not draw a lot of double teams. And he doesn’t score a lot of TDs either. Not sure how you’re arriving at that theory.

  • Doug Sawyer

    yes he does…and yes he does

  • Doug Sawyer

    are you kidding me?…what did Plex run the 40 in?
    go back to sleep

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    Antonio Brown has 15 career TDs over 4 seasons. The last 3 full seasons (as a starter) he averaged 5 TDs per year. In my opinion that is not a lot.

  • That’s true. It doesn’t mean we should pick a guy on height alone. Maybe I am naive, but if a guy is 2-3 inches shorter and has a 5″ higher vertical, what’s the difference?

  • 4.59. Benjamin ran a 4.61. So what point where you trying to make?

  • He was double teamed more as the year went on. And no he doesn’t get in the endzone a lot. I never argued that point one way or the other.

    AB gets in the endzone from outside the 20 in most cases. We need a Redzone threat. Double Teaming isn’t much of a factor in the redzone since the field is so compressed it inherently allows tighter coverage.

  • Doug Sawyer

    that’s because Wallace plundered his numbers…first year without Wallace and his number are the same110 receptions 1500 yards 8 TD’s …that demands double coverage

  • Doug Sawyer

    that we took Plex who ran a 4.6 40 with #8 pick and he was completely fine on the Steelers in terms of production and value

  • Doug Sawyer

    and Plex had all the bad hands nay sayers too…Benjamin is better than Plex coming out of college

  • Doug Sawyer

    You put Benjamin on the the other side of that and lights out

  • Doug Sawyer

    you drop Miller into the dead spot of the zones trying to cover the other two…and he can order a cup of coffee with every catch he gets

  • That does not tie back at all to double teams or 40 times in any meaningful way. You may have noticed that I said he would only draw doubles once his play demanded it. Do you know what Plax’z play demanded his rookie year? Nothing. He started 9 games and had 22 catches for 270-odd yards and 0 TDs. Nobody was afraid of him that year, Only once his play demanded it did defenses respect him. Neither his height nor his speed intimidated defenses before that.

    If you think 833 yards and 4.4 TDs a year is “completely fine” from a #8 pick, we have very different definitions of fine.

  • Plax’s naysayers were also correct. Throughout his career his iffy route running and hands caused a lot of INTs. He nearly got benched in NY several times for that after he left Pittsburgh.

  • There are at least 6 WRs you could say that about in this draft, if not 10.

  • Doug Sawyer

    Plex was constantly doubled when we established a QB, the other part of the story you’re not telling

    Benjamin has very much to do with Winston getting the Heisman comes with better size and potential than Plex did and will not come at #8 like Plex did

  • Doug Sawyer

    your first words on him “I can’t see him demanding double coverage with his lack of speed.” Plex’s number were the same so altering the conversation after that is changing the subject

  • “When we established a QB”, which was also his 5th year in the league. That needs to be considered.

    Better size? I wouldn’t call 9lbs significantly better size. Physically, they are almost the same player, right down to having very similar combine results. It’s good he won’t come at 8, as that was too high for Burress considering what we got out of him (15 would have been as well).

    I agree that Benjamin has a higher upside. I am not arguing that point at all. I am saying that he has similar red flags, and there are other WRs with similar production and positives with fewer concerns. Yes they have lower upside, but they are available in later rounds as well.

  • Doug Sawyer

    No his immaturity caused him problems …Ben loved him and cajoled for the Steelers to resign him Plex hit 1k yards in his second season and 1300 after that…he was fragile in he weight and was never the TD machine Benjamin is…
    That’s why you go after that guy he’s bigger and stronger and more productive version of something you have already coveted in the past

  • Doug Sawyer

    If Plexico can get 1000 yards receiving with Tommy Maddox in his second year.Benjamin can easily do the same with Ben…so bottom line add another 1000+yard receiver Ben can kill teams with…or not?

  • Doug Sawyer

    no there isn’t…Watkins/Evans are top end Benjamin is the next very close tier

  • Doug Sawyer

    Benjamin will not make it out of the first round…THAT is not a mistake

  • Come on. You can do better than that. That is a piss poor bottom line argument based on the idea that:
    A: Benjamin is a guaranteed 1,000 yard WR and
    B: No other WR that is drafted after him is capable of similar production

    The pick is all about VALUE. If you can get almost the same player a full round later, why would you spend your first on KB?

  • MonCrief, Cooks and Adams could all do the same. That is 6 right there.

  • Good for him. I still don’t think the value is there at 15.

  • Doug Sawyer

    they are not as good

  • Doug Sawyer

    nonsense the top pick is about impact not value

  • Doug Sawyer

    there are only a few player that will come in and have the ability to impact the Steelers immediately in the way a Benjamin could

  • Doug Sawyer

    did you even listen to the POD cast? are you just ignoring the fact that HE won’t make it out of the first round?…that means it’s not just me making this argument that you have absolute blinders to…taking a very good football player at #15 is what I’m advocating…you are advocating that somehow everyone else has it wrong and the Kid is not good and that your opinion is more important

  • Doug Sawyer

    just in case you haven’t noticed it’s a pass happy league and WR’s are the premium in the new NFL… followed by CB’s .Given that the Steelers will take two CB’s in all likelyhood they don’t have the luxury of getting the WR pick wrong and they are not double dipping at WR…so the logic follows to take a top receiver who compliments what you already have but gives you something you don’t a highly productive redzone weapon….at 15 that is Benjamin

  • Based on what?

  • “are you just ignoring the fact that HE won’t make it out of the first round?”

    Yes, I am actually, which should be clear from my post. I don’t care if he will make it out of the first. You are on his jock as if he is the hottest, must have commodity in the draft. He is not.

    “you are advocating that somehow everyone else has it wrong and the Kid is not good and that your opinion is more important”

    Nope, never said that. What I said was he has risks and there is better value in terms of risk/reward later in the draft. Don’t spend time refuting arguments that I did not make.

  • “just in case you haven’t noticed it’s a pass happy league and WR’s are the premium in the new NFL..”

    In case YOU haven’t noticed, this draft is incredibly deep at receiver. For the last time, Kelvin Benjamin IS NOT THE ONLY VIABLE WR IN THIS DRAFT. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

  • Plax was never doubled until he earned it, period.

    And you coming in halfway through a conversation and attacking half the argument is misdirection.

  • For what it’s worth, Adams is a better Red Zone threat that Benjamin. He’s slightly shorter, but he has better hands and a higher vertical to compensate. And the numbers show it. Regardless of the competition faced (a legit concern that is knocking him to the 2nd or 3rd), you still have to come down with the ball. Adams scored almost as many RZ TDs as Benjamin scored period.

  • You haven’t paid much attention to our recent draft choices at all, have you?

    Jones, Hood, Decastro, Heyward, Mendenhall, Timmons, they were all based on value, not perceived immediate impact.

  • MC

    I thought Joe Burnett was gonna stick around and beat out Lewis too.
    I’ve changed my tone and i think BPA is gonna stand with our 15th pick regardless of our CB needs.
    Shazier could be the guy.

  • Jason White

    There are so many people that are against the idea of drafting Kelvin Benjamin. A lot of the state “We don’t need a tall receiver.” You know you can draft a cornerback in the first round but lets face it, that corner no matter who he is likely won’t start in his first season leaving his impact to a sub package role at best with work on special teams with 2015 likely being his first opportunity to have a starting spot. That doesn’t spell significant improvement for a team in need of a boost. The defense’s best hope for improvement is not a cornerback playing a limited role, it is gonna hinge on the ability of the front seven’s ability to stop the run and get pressure on the quarterback.

    So while you are waiting for the defense to find its mojo the best thing you can do is take some of the pressure off of it. Which for the most part will fall on the offense’s ability to flip field position and more importantly to turn their redzone misfortunes into opportunities to make those trips inside the 20 into 7 points and not the field goal fest we’ve become so used to. Kelvin Benjamin is probably the biggest game changing weapon when it comes to his skillset for redzone scoring. You take Benjamin and you significantly improve the offense’s biggest flaw. You might have a guy in mind you might like a few rounds later but make no mistake about it that guy doesnt have the measurables of Kelvin Benjamin and they won’t scare defenses inside the redzone like Benjamin.

  • Andrew

    Ohio State has converted to a semester system. Not that there are many elite prospects coming out of Northwestern, but it is still on a quarter system.

  • Rob

    Sigh… Again with the Kelvin Benjamin propaganda… Dave, no offense, but I’m happy you aren’t Kevin Colbert or Mike Tomlin. I trust you got it all out and we are done with this agenda until the draft. There’s other prospects I’d like to hear about and I’m sure I’m not alone

  • StarSpangledSteeler

    I couldn’t have said it any better. It’s like we as fans get used to only scoring 21 points per game, so we think that’s all we need.

    In our current state of affairs it will much easier to add a couple offensive players and score 7 more points per game than it will be to add a couple defensive players and allow 7 less points per game.

    Again, I’m not saying screw the defense. But the defense is going to take more time to fix than the offense. So you should draft accordingly, to maximize the playing time of your early picks.

  • grw1960

    As much as I have not liked the Idea. If we are only concerned with the red zone and Tds. I would take Ebron over Benjamin

  • I do not like him as a prospect at all, Just looks too much like Mike Williams. I would rather have: Cj Mosley, Imagine two 3 down ILB.

  • No he really is not, Body catcher, does not turn and look for the ball. And will not outrun the average DB. I would rather have the Robinson kid from PSU in round two. Similar height runs 4.47. That is a weapon height+speed+doesn’t have a 10% drop rate.

  • He said he would like one, but pretty sure he is doing fine with AB.

  • Donte Williams

    I agree I liked benjamin but i do not want the Steelers to waste a #15 overall on him if he falls to the 2nd great but let’s not forget that Robinson PSU Moncrief OLE MISS who i am starting to like Street back yard boy PITT and Abenarious Consin can field that 6 plus WR void.

  • Donte Williams

    who to say Benjamin is going to start from the rip? and this WR class is deep are you going to say Robinson, Moncrief, Dude from Vandy, Abenarious or Bryant cant fill that void in ladder rounds?

  • Jason White

    I never said Kelvin Benjamin would start from the get go. I said he would improve the redzone scoring meaning he would see most of his snaps inside the 20 and more so inside the 10.

  • Jason White

    1. Body catcher? Have you seen him play? He attacks the ball in the air, with his HANDS.
    2. Its not his speed that is his weapon. Its his size and strength. You don’t have to run a 4.4 in the 40 to succeed in the NFL.
    3. Allen Robinson is 6’2″ and 5/8 hardly comparable to a 6’5″ guy.

  • You can add Beckham from LSU to that list as well. That depth is exactly why I don’t see the value in picking KB at 15.

  • Callentown

    I only watched three FSU games this past year, including the Championship game, so I’m far from an expert on Benjamin.

    I don’t like that he didn’t show up for the championship game. What really sold me on Watkins was the clinic he put on in his bowl game. Showed up big in the big game.

    Also, when you look at the stats, Benjamin was the second statistical leader on his team.

    Rashad Greene had 76 receptions to Benjamin’s 54. Also had more yards and the long TD of the year.

    Benjamin’s weakest quarter is the fourth, where he has only 6 receptions and 3 TD’s.

    Of his 15 TD’s, only 4 are inside the 9 yd line.

    He’s rough and has a high potential ceiling. But there are several other WR’s that are more complete and have less down side.

  • Callentown

    I disagree.

  • Yes I have and he catches with his body.