Bill Cowher Has Slightly Higher Opinion Than Bradshaw Of Mike Tomlin

Evidently, former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Terry Bradshaw is not the biggest fan in the world of the team’s current head coach, Mike Tomlin, who has been on the job for 11 years now. After getting burned for comments that he made last year about him being a cheerleader coach, he recently evaded the opportunity of offering any sort of opinion.

Tomlin’s predecessor, however, has a much higher opinion. Bill Cowher, who took the team to two Super Bowls and won one, recently spoke to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, saying, “I think Mike’s done great”.

After all, how can anybody argue? Coming off a season in which he brought his team to the AFC Championship game for the third time in 10 years, Tomlin has already secured the division with three games to go and could take a huge step toward locking down homefield advantage—fittingly at home—against the Patriots tonight.

“He’s done a great job of creating consistency year in and year out”, Cowher pointed out. They’ve not had a losing record. And at the same time transitioning from one player to another and making some of the tough decisions that go with that.”

Tomlin and Kevin Colbert were tasked with navigating the transition from one defensive dynasty to another. Only two players on defense even remain from the 2010 team, and neither of them are starters, or play particularly much.

Though the Steelers have won 11 of 13 games, many of them have been close calls, but Cowher doesn’t see that as an indictment. “If you win these games and you win them easily, you can lose an edge”, he argued. “I think the one thing the Steelers have not ever done is lose that edge”.

He argued that there is not a great level of difference in quality between the top teams in the league from the bottom. He added, “a lot of times, it’s learning how to win. Expecting to win. Not hoping to win. And I think what you have is a culture in Pittsburgh where, if they’re in close games, there’s not going to be any panic. They understand what they need to do”.

And, once again, that is certainly a point that is hard to argue. The Steelers have won four of their past five games by virtue of a last-minute field goal, and they have shown poise throughout that process. It helps to have Chris Boswell and his composure.

Of course, we all know that the story of the season will be shaped by what happens from this point forward, starting now. Taking down the Patriots and (virtually) securing the top seed would set them up well for their postseason ambitions.

This year, as always in Pittsburgh, it is Super Bowl or bust. It has been nearly a decade since they last won the Super Bowl. And Ben Roethlisberger’s career—Cowher’s player, naturally—is winding down. This season has legacy-cementing implications, in a big way.

About the Author

Matthew Marczi
Passionate Steelers fan with a bit of writing ability. Connoisseur of loud music. Follow me on Twitter @mmarczi.
  • Michael Putman

    Obviously…

  • Mister Wirez

    Cowhers a good man and probably sees Bradshaw as the fool he is.

  • will

    “And Ben Roethlisberger’s career—Cowher’s player, naturally—is winding down.”………..
    Cowher’s player?????………Cowher did not even want to draft Ben……he was overruled by Rooney!

  • StolenUpVotes

    I don’t care if bill was the hc when ben was drafted. Ben is a Tomlin player

  • pittfan

    +100. What HC doesn’t inherit a 53 man roster? The Cowher Halo is GONE. This is 100% Tomlin and I for one want to see him bring home a Lombardi that is indisputably his.

  • AndreH

    Everyone piling on Terry Bradshaw after his recent comments about Mike Tomlin. I don’t have an issue with it. Cowher received the same criticism for his team lack of success against the Patriots. I’m not surprised by his support for Mike Tomlin.

  • Doug Sawyer

    anyone who hates Tomlin at this point is a F’n moron

  • AndreH

    Who said anything about hate?

  • Doug Sawyer

    it’s implied in Bradshaw’s attitude about Tomlin …there is simply nothing statistical that Bradshaw can have a reasoned argument about Tomlin’s record or numbers…It is therefore in Bradshaw’s head that this animus comes from…I’m calling it hate

  • Doug Sawyer

    the only argument that could be levied at Tomlin is his poor record against losing record teams…but when looked at in the full body of work …that’s a reach and a half to measure him on

  • Carl Mendelius

    Tomlin is a great leader not a great football mind. Proof: he hasn’t figure out how at least compete with NE in 10+ years. Moreover, he gets ridiculed more often than not.

  • Ichabod

    Loved Bradshaw as a player. I grew up with him and Steelers kickin’ butt, takin’ names, and winnin’ Super Bowls. But from a ‘Burgh point of view, he has turned into quite the anal orifice.

  • Asmitty56

    You have to have a pretty good mind to find and coach talent like Tomlin has been able to do. He has a lot of say in player acquisition, at least more so than a lot of other coaches.

  • SteelersGeek4Lyfe

    I love Cowher, and I was extremely upset when he left… but Tomlin is the second best coach in Steelers history.

  • SteelersGeek4Lyfe

    Nobody has figured out how to compete with NE in the last 16 years, tbh

  • Michael Mosgrove

    Difference between cowher and number 12 is that cowher isn’t an idiot.

  • Michael Mosgrove

    Chuck noll hated number 12.

  • RJMcReady

    Pretty amazing to think Cowher got the Steelers to 6 AFCCG in 12 seasons (1994-2005).

    94′, 95′, 97′, 01′, 04′, 05′

    Tomlin has been to 3 AFCCG in 9 seasons (2008-2016).

    08′, 10′, 16′

    Right now, you have to say Cowher is the second best coach in Steeler history.

    Playing in the AFC Title game almost felt as annual for Steeler Fans under Cowher as celebrating Christmas or New Years.

  • Doug Sawyer

    I don’t think Chuck liked a lot of people lol

  • Phil Brenneman II

    I agree with your latter part but you first part is a bit iffy. Sure, every coach inherits a 53 but maybe 1 in every 1000 inherit a roster as good as Tomlin got. Credit where credit is due, he brought them out of their SB hangover year and back to the SB but that team was absolutely stacked.

    We are starting to transition into the era where Tomlin will no longer have any Cowher players. I have said it many times but there are a couple of markers.

    Right now we are past the Cowher roster but Ben still remains and was picked under Cowher. So even though Tomlin will get majority credit now and no argument for “he inherited a great roster” there will still be the ultimate coaching test of what he does when he no longer has a franchise QB.

  • steeler_fanatic

    Bradshaw was a great player and would be held in the highest regard by the fans except that he continually shows disdain for the organization and said fans. I know he took a lot of heat early in his career and was upset when Noll told him to get on with his life’s work. But he has no reason to have become the bitter old man ahole that he clearly is in regards to the Steelers and Steelers Nation.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    Bradshaw seems petty but I don’t think he is dumb. He called Tomlin a cheerleader guy and in a sense, that is similar to a point Dave and Dave brought up on the podcast last year when they asked the question “what does Tomlin do?”.

    I mean think about it (and I am not calling Tomlin a bad coach) but do we have any clue about his X’s and O’s knowledge? Most of what we see is delegation from Tomlin so it is hard in the Steelers organization often times to figure out where to place credit or blame.

    Anyway, I think people are too hard on Bradshaw. He had an opinion on the guy and he gave it. Is he supposed to lie if he feels a certain way?

  • Chris92021

    Terry seems to be the most bitter champion ever. Coach Noll was always aloof from his players because he felt he needed the emotional distance to cut or bench them when necessary. Terry wanted a hug from his coach and adulation from the fans, which he never got in his early days. Plus he was never really given the credit for the 4 Super Bowls like the defense has. I feel his pain but man his bitterness is getting comical to me at this point.

  • Michael Mosgrove

    he is dumb though. many have said it. yes he might be famous. yes he was a cog in the dynasty steelers. but in the last 38 years he has been nothing but a cantankerous old tosspot. he goes out of his way to be a grumpy old man. he could have said no comment. he could have said a multitude of things.
    i wont refer to him by name anymore. number 12 is a loser.

  • Michael Mosgrove

    it establishes a pattern. noll hated #12. lynn swann spoke out against 12. etc etc etc. all the way to tomlin.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    Feel like you are just parroting things you have heard. I have watched and listen to him in interviews and he seems the exact opposite of cantankerous. He is always joking and having a good time and is self depricating to boot.

    Maybe he has a sore spot for certain members of the Steelers organization but he doesn’t go out of his way to bash them. If he is asked something he answers honestly, nothing wrong with that.

    On the other side you are sounding a bit cantakerous yourself when it comes to Bradshaw.

  • nutty32

    Kordell Stewart costs us two trips to the big dance.

  • Michael Mosgrove

    no. this is my opinion and only own. i couldnt care less what others say. come on man you know by now i say what i want regardless of anyone else.

    two interviews stick out specifically to me.

    1) #12 was asked by howie long a couple years ago if he supports the steelers or if he ever watches games, goes to games etc. #12 responded by saying no, he would never support the steelers and he wouldnt go to games or watch the games if it wasnt his job.

    2) #12 was asked by erin andrews around the time of ben’s accident what he thought of the team, the direction they were going, ben etc. terry basically threw an enormous of shade at everyone and everything. it was low class, in poor taste and utterly stupid. ive never been a ben fan but it was disgusting.

    those are two of the reasons that i will never hold #12 in any type of respect as far as who he is past the 70’s.

    as far as me being cantankerous, maybe. but the difference is, despite my gripes that i have about certain plays, coaches or whatever else, i still support this team and have since i came to the usa. #12 got what he wanted and he shoves it in peoples faces. thats a low brow person.

  • Orlysteel

    His favorite team are the Saints, he’s a Louisiana kid.

  • WB Tarleton

    Wow. Talk about cherry picking stats. I’m not saying that Cowher is not the second best coach in Steelers history, but that stat does not prove it. One could just as easily point out how many of those AFCCG he lost as a favorite playing at home to make the opposite argument.

  • WB Tarleton

    Ridiculed? By who? Racist yinzers? People whose knowledge of the game is limited to how many feet in a yard? The guy is very well respected around the league and by national and local media.

  • GravityWon

    Cowher and Tomlin are very good coaches. The problem being the measuring stick is Bellichick who has 5 Superbowls and is thought to be the best strategist ever.

    The pats didn’t need hidden cameras against Cowher. He basically said in the week before the game that we’re going to stay with what worked (running the ball and stopping run) all season and not put too much on a rookie QB. Way to surprise em Bill.

    Im grateful we had both these coaches but there was/is still room for improvement.

    I never cared that much for Terry though. With as much talent there was on that team Ben would have had 6 Superbowl wins.

  • WB Tarleton

    1) Tomlin inherited a team with a defense that was on the back nine. He rebuilt it on the fly without a losing record.
    2) Our skill positions are many times better.
    3) So is the OL.
    4) Although saying that Ben was forced on Bill may be a little strong, it is only a little. Cowher wanted to draft OL Shawn Andrews from Arkansas and was overruled by the Rooneys.
    5) Cowher inherited a pretty darn good roster himself, one that was young and on the upswing after several down years. Not too many young head coaches inherit Neil O’Donnell (anybody who says Neil was not a good QB does not understand football nor the era), Dermontti Dawson, Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Merril Hoge, John Jackson, Barry Foster and Ernie Mills.
    6) In this era, teams do not do well without a “franchise QB.” It will be a test in his ability to find another, not a “coaching test.”

  • DirtDawg1964

    Valid points. I think the one thing that is clear is Ben may have been drafted during the Cowher era, but Cowher doesn’t get credit for drafting him. It’s on the record he didn’t want to draft him. It was Rooney who made a clear case to draft Ben.

    But the point remains. You can’t be a great coach without a great QB. And Tomlin has had one. But you also still have to coach that QB, and the rest of the team, to greatness. And Tomlin has done that.

  • DirtDawg1964

    Right, but if you accept that argument it must mean he has a better than average record against teams with winning records. After all, their overall record has even outstanding during Tomlin’s tenure (I think second to only BB).

    Yes, it’s maddening that they have the occasional loss against bad teams but it should then be heartening that they win against good ones. Of course, people will say “but they should win against good teams”. Yes, of course, that’s the expectation. And they do win. Consistently.

    Some people would be unhappy if Tomlin had BB’s record. They’d point to the twelve SBs he didn’t win instead of the five he did win.

  • DirtDawg1964

    By that standard, the only quality coach in the league is BB. Because no one, other than Coughlin maybe, has figured out how to beat him.

    So that puts Tomlin in the top of the next tier. And that’s plenty good enough. You’re looking at a likely HOF coaching career. Especially if he wins one more SB.

    And you don’t coach as long as he has, and put up the record he has, without being a great football mind. It’s lunacy to think otherwise. Do you really think the team wins in spite of him?

  • DirtDawg1964

    He does all those things. But he also didn’t attend funerals for Noll or Mr Rooney. That’s classless. He said a lot through those actions. That, far more than anything he has said, sticks in my craw with respect to him.

    I did have the privilege of watching him play. Grateful for his contribution to the four SBs. He was generally outstanding under the pressure of big games. But he’s been small and petty at times and that’s hard to get past. At least for me it is.

  • JohnB

    Hey if Tomlin got this far in his career without any X and O Knowledge, then the dude must be a genius in the other departments.

  • GravityWon

    Great player or QB with good arm on great team?

    TDs 212
    INTs 210

  • Phil Brenneman II

    1. The losing record thing is an overblown point IMO. Not that it is a bad thing but you can be 8-8 and not make the playoffs and your “record” still holds. His best successes came with the core of Cowers team and now we are seeing where his own team will go.

    2. That is debatable. Bettis is an HOF’er and Ward is borderline. Bell and AB are both HOF or HOF potential so I would say it is similar. Although that being said, I am not sure what you were getting at with this point.

    3. OL is definitely some of the strongest it has ever been and credit goes to Tomlin and Colbert for picking talent, but Tomlin also has an HOF OL coach.

    5. I didn’t follow as closely then so I don’t really compare Cowher and Tomlin regardless of circumstance. What I do know for certain is that Tomlin inherited one heck of a team and I think it is nonsense when people try to ignore that.

    6. Finding a QB is part of a coaches job so by definition it is a coaching test.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    Him not liking the Steelers doesn’t make him stupid and again, you point to the fact that he was asked these questions. It isn’t like he was going out of his way to bash the Steelers.

    The guy seems like he is enjoying life and is beyond all of that until he is asked about it. Don’t see any issue at all with it.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    Well sure, you can define it that way but I was talking about Michael calling him stupid. None of those things make him stupid or even cantakerous. I don’t think there are many here who would attend the funeral of a person they didn’t like and by all accounts Terry and Noll didn’t have the best relationshiop so why would Terry be any different than anyone else?

  • BurghBoy412

    Why would one care about this? Opinion are like A holes.

  • WB Tarleton

    1) Really? How many coaches blow up a defense and do not go through a single season where they are not playoff contenders?

    2) Sorry. It is only debatable because technically, everything is. Bell and AB are superior in every important way over Bettis and Ward. Bettis was a Martyball RB and Ward a possession receiver. Bettis came off the field for Mewelde Moore on third downs and in hurry up situations. Bell never does. In almost exactly half the games, AB has about 9000 yards receiving to Ward’s 12000 and almost 750 receptions to Ward’s 1000 (exactly). There is not a single facet of the game where Bettis has an advantage over Bell and the only facet where Ward is better is blocking. I will use a baseball HOF analogy because it is so clear. Phil Rizzutto is a hall of famer. That does not make him “similar” in status to Babe Ruth.

    3) That’s funny. In number 5, you say that finding a QB is part of coaching so part of the “coaching test”, but here you imply that finding HOF coaches is not? Why do you think Munchak picked here, instead of say with Marvin Lewis, when he could have been the OL coach on nearly any team he wanted?

    4) You completely ignore this. Ben was not “Cowher’s guy” and is a completely different player under Tomlin. Cowher was still making Ben play “Martyball” when he quit.

    5) Tomlin inherited a very good but OLD team. I think it is nonsense when people try to ignore that.

    6) Being a coach’s responsibility is different than being a “coaching test.” No one can turn Tom Savage into a franchise QB and finding a franchise QB picking from the 30-32 spot is nearly impossible.

  • Darth Blount 47

    I’ll admit to being SHOCKED when we hired Tomlin. I was like…. “Who?!”

    I thought for sure Russ Grimm would get the job.

    But I think the Rooneys made the right call. I am frustrated by the lack of a championship in the last decade. And though I’m mostly a fan, some of the Tomlinisms get on my nerves after a while. But at this moment, I wouldn’t trade Mike Tomlin for ANY other coach in the league. That’s right. Not a SINGLE one. He’s embraced the culture and city and fans and we have embraced him back. If he can lead us to another title, a 7th Lombardi, and his 2nd in 3 appearances, he’ll for sure go down as a legend, because I don’t think his coaching career would be in ANY peril for the next decade.

  • Marcel Chris Chauvet

    There’s truth to that. The AFCCG losses will always hang over Cowher, just like the inexplicable losses to teams with losing records(à la the Bears game) will count against Tomlin. Those two things sort of cancel each other out for me. I think the real test is when you go back and look at the rosters. And when you do, it’s not close. Mike Tomlin has coached a lot more good teams on paper than did Cowher. Plus, he’s had a hall of fame QB The whole time.

  • steeler_fanatic

    He outright stunk in his early years and was booed unmercifully. I agree that for the first two SBs that you or I could have QBd those teams. However the offense transitioned to a passing game and he was integral to the Steelers success in winning Lombardi’s 3 and 4. Also different era when receivers could be mugged and QBs hit. Google the Turkey Jones hit on TB. My recollect is he came back in the 2nd half to play. Tough SOB who called his own plays. It’s too bad he has such an axe to grind with the Steelers. Probably has CTE too.

  • Doug Sawyer

    that was basically my point when I said “but when looked at in the full body of work”

  • Ken Krampert

    They both inherited really good rosters and both had pluses and minuses. Cowher rebuilt the entire coaching staff and Tomlin kept Lebeau and Arians. The big advantage Tomlin had was Ben vs O’Donnell. No comparison. Both guys had to rebuild the rosters, but Tomlin’s upcoming challenge will be replacing Ben while avoiding down seasons

  • DirtDawg1964

    Yes, sorry. I didn’t mean “you” specifically. I meant the broader “them” who use that point ad naseum as proof he’s not a good coach.

  • DirtDawg1964

    I hear ya’. In my view, you attend a funeral when you know it matters to others. But that’s my view as to what the right thing to do is. It doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to handle those situations.

    I think he could have showed up. He was seen as a leader of those teams. He craved Noll’s attention. Just seemed spiteful he didn’t show. That’s all.

    Speaking of class. Duke Johnson scored a TD for Cleveland today and his TD “celebration” was a group prayer for Shazier. That’s class. Didn’t have to do it. But he did.

  • Chris

    Tomlin has done a fine job. He deserves alot of credit for his successful tenor. I personally think Kevin Colbert and the ownership also deserve equal credit. I don’t see Tomlin as a one guy mastermind ala belichick but someone who is excellent in a few spots with great intangibles.

  • DirtDawg1964

    His passer rating in SBs is an otherworldly 112.7. That would be superlative in today’s era never mind one where good, of not great, QBs were routinely in the 70s.

  • DirtDawg1964

    Sums it up for me too. We all have big expectations. It’s one of the great things abut being a Steeler fan. For the past 45 years I’ve been able to largely enjoy winning seasons and regular playoff appearances.

    On the whole, I’m a Tomlin fan. D I get frustrated by his clock management, the occasional loss to a bad opponent, his inability to get past NE, and his occasional bluster (still waiting for him to unleash Hell)? Yes. But I wouldn’t trade him for anyone else outside of BB. I might take that trade.

  • Ni mo

    Inherited a defense ? The best thing he did was kept LeBeau , people forget that that 8-8 season Ben was a young buck and dam near killed him self on a bike , and the chances of them going back to back was not good anyway . Tomlin gets credit but he kept LeBeau that was a big difference

  • Ni mo

    True but he still won a sb with Ben in 3 years

  • Ni mo

    No he said Tomlin is a cheer leader and he never see him coach in the field. He never said he hates him

  • Phil Brenneman II

    1. No clue. Point is, 8-8 isn’t really a success so saying someone doesn’t have a losing season means what exactly? And the defense has been a transition. It isn’t as if every player left at once.

    2. Your mistake is comparing career numbers. You have to consider value to the team from season to season. Ward was mostly a top 10 receiver in the NFL in various categories from year to year and Bettis was also a top rusher. You also have to consider other factors. Bettis and Ward were both team leaders and offered tremendous value to the team in that regard whereas Bell has had suspensions and AB multiple “distractions”. Main point is, the current advantage isn’t significant but even then I am not sure what your point would be if it was. If anything it would be a knock on Tomlin no? He has the best WR and RB in the NFL the past fews seasons along with a fantastic line and franchise QB and hasn’t been able to win an SB. If we were comparing (and I don’t) Cowher got there with Neil O’Donnel and less talent.

    3. Didn’t imply that at all and as far as why Munchak chose the Steelers….what coach wouldn’t come here? We are a fantastic orginization. Or were you implying Munchak came specifically because he thought Tomlin was a great coach?

    4. You are missing the point. He was drafted under Cowher regardless, so we don’t have any clue what Tomlin is going to be like evaluating QB’s. We know Cowher clearly didn’t put enough value in QB’s but we know very little about how Tomlin will do when it comes to transitioning from Ben. You don’t just get to magically grant him players he didn’t pick.

    5. Nobody ignored it but once again you clearly miss the point. That old team had just won an SB and went on to win another. How many other coaches have come into a roster that good regardless of age.

    6. It isn’t and you are just playing semantics with the point for arguments sake. It will be his next great test as a coach. How he handles the transition from Ben. Period.

  • WB Tarleton

    I don’t understand the “but” in your last sentence. Staffing decisions are a big part of being a head coach, right? Unless it was part of the requirements for getting the job from the Rooneys, he made the decision and gets credit for it. He gets credit for DLB WANTING to stay on with a rookie head coach. Just as he gets credit for hiring Munchak, who picked the Steelers despite being able to get almost any OL coaching gig he wanted.

    And the defense was still good but on the back nine. It was getting old, quick.

  • Ni mo

    Bradshaw is a saints fan he even said that

  • Ni mo

    He didn’t hire munchak the Rooney’s did . He said Tomlin inherited a defense that was in the back nine . No he didn’t he kept LeBeau which was smart, but he didn’t inherit a defense he left it like it is. He had nothing to do with the defense when he first got there

  • Phil Brenneman II

    Well it is commonly expressed that he is great with players and handling them so there is that. He also has a penchant for picking offensive talent (depending on how much say you think a coach gets in picking).

  • Phil Brenneman II

    I think I am with you on that and have said similar about Ben in the past. There are better QB’s but Ben IS a Steeler. Having Brady would be great but he doesn’t belong in the city.

    I feel similar about Tomlin and that really kicked in this season with how he handled the flag kneeling thing. I still don’t know how great of coach he is but man, I like that guy.

  • Applebite

    People in the media keep going after Bradshaw for his thoughts on Tomlin. They’re using mind games with him. Bradshaw is never even around the facility or the F.O. to know anything about Coach T, to actually have an opinion about him. And I think somebody close to Bradshaw should tell him to check those jackholes in the media that continue to question him about Tomlin. Because from the surface, if you didn’t know anything at all about Terry, you’d call him a racist or something. And that’s so far from the truth.

  • JohnB

    So hes great with players, picking and handling, do you think thats all it takes to be as successful as he has been?

  • WB Tarleton

    1) So…if a new Brown’s coach comes in next season and goes 8-8, it will not be a success? Of course it will. A couple of 8-8 seasons when rebuilding a D and parts of the offense is a great feat. It’s not that he had “no losing seasons” (your line, not mine), but that he kept them competitive the entire time. If he went 7-9 instead of 8-8 one season, it would not have changed that.

    2) No mistake at all. The career numbers are merely illustrative, nor is that all I discussed. I discussed what each did. Who is the better back? The one who comes off on third downs and hurry up situations or the one who is a huge receiving threat and is one of the best in the league at picking up blitzes on those same downs? No serious football person, not a GM, writer on this website, or national person would even consider that Bettis and Ward are even remotely close to as good as Bell/AB. It’s a laughable thought.

    3) Of course you implied it by not giving Tomlin credit for Munchak coming here. Tomlin is part of this “fantastic organization” being what it is. If Tomlin is a jacka$$ who everyone dislikes, those types do not sign here.

    4) No point “missed” at all. Yes, he inherited a great QB. The credit Cowher gets rounds to approximately “zero.” Getting a new one will be a much larger responsibility for the scouting department than Tomlin.

    5) Nor did I ignore that Tomlin (and Cowher) inherited a good team. Using it to knock a coach, however, is nonsense. Many coaches have inherited good teams and subsequently wrecked them.

    It’s funny, you say that “nobody ignored it” but then go on to say “regardless of age”, the very meaning of “ignoring” it. There was going to be a drop in play regardless of who took over for Cowher or if he stayed. That he kept them competitive was a great accomplishment.

    6) No semantics. There is a reason that Colbert is not called a “coach.”

  • Phil Brenneman II

    I have no idea. All I know is we know nothing about his x’s and o’s knowledge. I think you can be great in any profession if you have great people around you though.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    1. You are comparing the Browns to Steelers. That point isn’t even worth answering so I will leave it there. Just nonsense.

    2. Nobody is saying they are as good, but they were close to the same value on their respective squads. They were dominant and leaders. And again, it doesn’t matter regardless. If anything your point only paints Tomlin more negatively which I think is the opposite of what you are trying to do.

    3. No I didn’t. I implied that we don’t really know why Munchak came. Most people would choose the Steelers when given the chance though. That isn’t even really a point worth debating.

    4. It isn’t about Cowhers credit so again yes, you continue to miss the point. This isn’t Cowher vs Tomlin. It is just an analysis of Tomlin an part of that is knowing that he inherited a franchise QB. Give Colbert credit if you want instead of Cowher but Tomlin gets even less credit than Cowher for it.

    5. “Knock” is a harsh word. It is more a lessening of accomplishments if you will. If you switch Tomlins career path and put him on the Browns instead of the Steelers he isn’t as decorated as he is now. There is no debating that. A lot of why he is where he is is because he came into a made situation. He didn’t wreck it cool, but he also isn’t Vince Lombardi because he was able to come in and have an SB winning roster win an SB.

    By me mentioning age shows I didn’t ignore it, duh. The point is, age isn’t as relevant as you make it out to be because they were still a dominant defense in Tomlins early years. So they were old and great? Okay. What is your point?

    6. It is semantics and I think you know that. Grab what life lines you can though, this is a losing battle for you.

  • WB Tarleton

    1) lol What a straw man. I did not “compare” the Browns and Steelers. I illustrated the obvious, that 8-8 can be a successful season.

    2) You stated: “Nobody is saying they are as good,…”
    You called them “similar” and said that AB/Bell being better is “debatable.” It’s not because they are.

    3) Nope. You said that bringing in a QB is all about coaching but gave ZERO credit for scoring a HOF line coach. The rest of your comments today on the topic have been a dance. There are numerous reasons Munchak came here, one of which is definitely Tomlin. The best line coach in the game does not choose to work for a guy he does not respect.

    4) I never claimed he did not inherit a HOF QB (actually, he inherited a young, promising QB, not a HOF QB) or deserves credit for drafting him. Debate me, not straw men.

    5) Knock may be harsh but it is accurate. And you do it again. “I didn’t ignore age!” Then, “But they were good!” without a scintilla of credit for turning over an old defense. He had a couple of years of a decent defense to milk for what he could get and had to rebuild. Cowher left him an old defensive unit. I cannot see why you cannot give credit for that.

    6) Drafting a QB is not a “coaching test.” Developing a young and talented QB IS a coaching test. Cowher did not fail as a coach by drafting Kordell. It happens. Every coach and GM have poor draft choices. BTW, the real “losing battle” is putting Hines and Bettis in the same league as AB/Bell. Not even close. It makes me wonder if you even watch football.

  • WB Tarleton

    That’s so silly. If you think that 1) Tomlin had no choice but to take Munchak; or 2) Munchak would come here without having respect for Tomlin as a coach, you are insane.

    And, yes, Tomlin inherited an OLD defense.

  • Carl Mendelius

    Now he got scared and played to not lose the game running the ball with 3min left. He limited Ben at the end of the game when they where winning.

  • Phil Brenneman II

    1. You did compare them. You asked if 8-8 was a success for the Browns after we talked about 8-8. You are saying 8-8 is the same for both teams. That is a direct comparison. But to answer your point, 8-8 is not comparable because for one it would be considered over achieving and for the other under achieving.

    2. It is because of the relative importance. It is a simple point to understand.

    3. I said it is a coching test, didn’t say it was all about coaching. This will go quicker if I don’t have to help you with reading and debate your points.

    4. It was implied by you taking the credit from Cowher. If Cowher doesn’t get credited as the coach for Ben, obviously Tomlin would. But how would he if he didn’t draft him?

    5. Why would he get credit for having a great defense just because they were old? A 20 year old pro bowler is the same as a 30 year old pro bowler for that season. Now if you want to talk about transitioning AFTER that we can. Yes, he has been solid through the transition but we will note that once he lost that defense we haven’t won since. So lets see how he does as HIS guys come of age.

    6. Semantics. Move on. Lost point for you.

  • WB Tarleton

    Nonsense. JJ does not drop the TD, we win. Ben does not throw the INT, we at least go to OT.

    We had been running on them the entire game and were without our all world WR. We played it properly. The strategy succeeded. JJ failed.